Are Grover Huffman Interconnects The Best For The Money
I only switched my excellent XLR ICs to ZX. They are the fastest, most uniformly transparent and dynamic cables I've had, and I've had dozens of well known models in the "under $1000" class. A real ear opener. I immediately bought a prepare of RCA ICs to match.
The dynamic qualities may brand the sound a chip brighter in some systems; if your organisation is vivid they might non be the all-time thing, but in soft or neutral systems they are a wonder. Exactly the audio I was looking for, at a ridiculous price by comparing to other top performers.
Some other HUGE Grover Huffman fan here. I take owned or take
listened to simply near every cable out in that location. The Grover'southward
are EXCEPTIONAL! Highly recommended!!
They exercise need a VERY long suspension in fourth dimension, but after that they
settle in, just perfect...
For those that have heard or endemic the Grover Huffman cables, how would you say their soundstaging presents itself? Do they have a more firsthand presentation like Virtual Dynamics and Assay Plus cables? Or are they more laid back similar Purist Sound and Tara Labs?
I can't comment on each of the brands yous mention, although I take endemic some Tara and AP. The ZX are definitely upfront and firsthand in character- non exaggerated, but closer to live music than nearly. Not laid back, certainly, hence my warning about using them in overly aggressive systems.
I was thinking of using them for the connection of my Scoutmaster to the preamp. Does this seem like a reasonable application?
Exercise they limit the bass functioning or exaggerate the highs JMBATkh
Thank you for the alert Jmbatkh. My system is not aggressive tonally, but I do not treat that immediate presentation. I prefer a mid-hall presentation over a front row seat. I like a soundstage with adept depth. It sounds like the Huffman'due south are non for me.
recently did an A v B comparison of the the Grover XLR interconnect versus a standard MOgami XLR and regular copper RCA cables...my arrangement is B&W800D, with all Marantz reference electronics, including source CD histrion....the S3 or something like that. The Grover was noticeably clearer and tighter, esp in mids and highs. I liked the improved definition and clarity. I could not really tell a departure in areas such as soundstage or imaging. The one thing I didn't treat was some thinness on solo piano...it merely didn't sound equally rich and full every bit i'd like. But i'll take it...have had both cables now for several months so figure probably a couple hundred hours of time on them.
My accept on the Grover cables are merely the opposite of
Jmbatkh. I started with the Grover "SC" cables
about vii-eight years ago. I sent those dorsum to Grover to have
them upgraded to the "SX" series, then once once more
almost a xviii months ago to the new "ZX" series. Then, I
accept owned Grover cables for quite awhile at present.
The two things that I will not stand for in my system is
effulgence and an upfront (forrad), in your face, audio.
The Grover'south take none of this! They throw a very deep,
wide soundstage with splendid bass and high frequency
control. They practise NOT have an immediate, upfront
sound...well, not in my organization anyway.
They are some of the most open up, warm, romantic, relaxed
cables that I take e'er heard, without beingness boring or as well
laid dorsum. I LOVE them. I really call back they are an
incredible deal and Grover gives a 60 day trial period.
I take stopped looking (and listening) to cables for the
foreseeable time to come.
HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!!!
Mofimadness
what are the components of your organization?
are you running all tube gear?
I'g going to dirty the waters here past really agreeing with both posters and give you my experience. Had the Grover XLRs for nearly 2.5 weeks called-for in non-stop (my organisation in my sig).
1. Burn-in is possibly the most brutal I've ever found in any cable
2. During burn-in, the audio is frontwards and "front-seat"
3. Strengths during burn-in are pristine mids and item, weaknesses are a white wine not reddish wine leanness
4. Nevertheless, after 150-200 hours, this DOES equalize and y'all're left with a pure, transparent, well-balanced sound
5. Imaging is wide, but in terms of depth, I would agree it's not rear-hall -- let's say it'southward between mid and forepart-seat
6. Compared to my Audience AU24Es, the Grovers give hardly anything away at all, at a fraction of the price -- so don't dominion them out if you desire this level of transparency and musicality without paying 4 or 5 times the toll.
It's all near trade-offs, plus Grover has a 60 day return policy.
@ jmcgrogan2, Very good respond of your 8-14-13 mail service, As you know, what you described in your post is exactly what I like with audio stages!, thank you.
I'll chime in on Grover'due south cables also, I accept a set of SC version (speaker) and a counterbalanced SX IC that I use. Yes the break in DOES TAKE some fourth dimension fully agree with that only, they imaged with item correct from the become go! Now I'm listening through Apogee Slant speakers and they throw a cracking sound stage, I concord that they are probably just a tad more forwards then mid hall (which I like) and they throw a broad stage with great detail. Bass is very well articulated and highs are smooth and extended also. Most of all when I had contacted Grover initially I explained that I wanted a NETURAL sounding cable without whatsoever tuning properties, which is exactly what I have in my rig. IMHO I call these a bargain if at that place ever was ane. Should you lot accept questions Grover is more than than happy to help , he's a true gentleman and I myself can't endorse his products plenty.
Please annotation- in my comments I did NOT say they sound bright. I said their dynamic qualites may exist too much(i.e. likewise forwards) in an already bright organization. In a neutral organization, they are most perfection, IMO. With cables, even more than other components, matchups dominion!
Accept any of you lot guys made the switch to Grover cables/cords from the upper registers of MIT, Kimber, Cardas or Transparent? If so, what did you gain past switching?
Merely received my ZX+ power cable and I have to say I am very impressed.
The kickoff thing I noticed was how textured and bear on-total the low-end is. Some of the best bass I've always heard, merely don't get me incorrect these are extremely neural cables then the low-end doesn't stand out; only in how marvellous information technology is.
The next matter that blew me away was how deep the sound stage became and how the images project them selves with-in it. The images accept pinpoint precision but resonate into a wide field with-in the stage (very natural sounding).
I would classify the ZX+ as an extremely technical cable. Extreme detail, texture, micro-dynamics, transparency and resolution all there.
This guy has some great ears and skill in his craft.
Simply received my ZX+ power cable and I have to say I am very impressed.
The outset thing I noticed was how textured and impact-full the low-end is. Some of the all-time bass I've always heard, just don't become me wrong these are extremely neural cables so the depression-end doesn't stand out; only in how marvellous it is.
The next thing that blew me away was how deep the sound stage became and how the images projection them selves with-in it. The images have pinpoint precision just resonate into a wide field with-in the stage (very natural sounding).
I would classify the ZX+ every bit an extremely technical cablevision. Extreme detail, texture, micro-dynamics, transparency and resolution all there.
This guy has some dandy ears and skill in his craft.
i have owned 3 unlike sets of grovers, but not his latest and greatest . i found all of his cables to have a audio that appeals to inexperienced listeners, highly detailed with improper residue betwixt the quietest and loudest "sounds", there seemed to be footling coherence of bodily music . In addition i certainly can't concord with his business model that sees "upgrades" on such a continuous ground, that it reminds me of the mode one changes vesture season to season
Ie,
I agree with y'all when y'all state, "a sound that appeals to inexperienced listeners".
"i found all of his cables to take a audio that appeals to inexperienced listeners"
Ie...that's a pretty ignorant, (but epic) statement to make on these forums. The members here are some of the most experienced and knowledgeable audiophiles in the globe.
Maybe it'southward "your" lack of experience that is at play hither?
Mofimadness,
I beg to disagree with you. I recall Ie is spot on.
Ie & Sabai Let me only (and respectfully) second the opinion the stance of Mofimadness in disagreement.
Sabai...weren't you lot the one who claimed that Grover stole a cable pattern from you? I think that kind of makes your comments a piddling one-sided?
Mofimadness.
That'southward truthful virtually my cablevision blueprint. But my comments here are solely based on my feel with high stop cables in my system for lengthy periods of time -- everything from Kimber to Cardas to ASI to HiDiamond to Bybee to Synergistic Research to Furutech to Elrod to Shuntata. My comments are based on a sober comparison of cables over a period of many years. My comments are not based on bias.
Mofimadness,
Please note that my comments about Grover Huffman cables appealing to "inexperienced ears" are by no ways exclusive to these cables. My comments apply every bit to Kimber, ASI, HiDiamond, Synergistic Research and many other cables I have had in my system.
Rsjm80,
It looks similar you have a really nice system. You lot owe it to yourself to upgrade your cables. A nice improvement in SQ would be your advantage.
I'll 3rd Mofi's stance and add mine.
"A audio that appeals to inexperienced listeners." smacks of snobbery. Delight enlighten us. In what way practise Grover ICs appeal to the inexperienced listener but which your superior listening skills have enabled you to reject? Perhaps we can one day accomplish the heights from which you make these pronouncements.
Ghosthouse,
With all due respect this has cypher at all to exercise with snobbery. Equally noted earlier, it has to do with a multi-twelvemonth comparison of cables from many companies. And may I reiterate, my comments utilize equally to a whole host of cablevision makers, not only to Grover Huffman cables. I tin can add Pangea and Gabriel Gilt to that long listing. This is not a affair of superior listening skills. It is a matter of superior cables where anyone tin can easily hear the difference -- if given the opportunity to do A/B comparisons. People who are initially impressed with, for example, Grover Huffman or Pangea or Gabriel Gold cables don't have enough experience with plenty cable companies to make valid comparisons.
For example, of you come to Grover Huffman cables from, let's say, Kimber or Pangea or Gabriel Gilded or ASI or HiDiamond, inexperienced listeners may be initially impressed with the dynamics and transparency of Grover Huffman cables. Just, on closer examination, these cables fall brusk. Listeners but may not note the lack of harmonics, the thinness in the sound with Grover Huffman cables, the lack of continuity, the lack of layering, the poor imaging with a lack of air effectually instruments and vocals, and the constriction of the audio stage. In short, there is a lack or realness in the sound quality with Grover Huffman cables -- and with cables from many other companies.
These are some of the well-nigh obvious short-comings with cables that may impress folks who take not heard cables from, for example, David Elrod or Shunyata. While the latter are not perfect cables, they easily make upwardly for the shortcomings of bottom cables and outclass them handily. This can be easily heard when doing A/B comparisons. Over the years I have done careful A/B testing of countless cables from a whole host of cable makers -- power cords, digital cables, ICs and speaker cables. I accept done thousands of tests. Most people practise non take the time and the opportunity -- and the inclination -- to exercise such testing. This is not beingness snobbish. Information technology's only a fact of life.
Of form, there is a price to be paid to relish the benefits of sure cables from certain cablevision makers. Pangea and Grover Huffman cables offering good value at their price points. No doubtfulness about it. But what they have to offer in terms of sound quality should not be confused with the audio of cables from companies that clearly outclass them.
Sabai, your response doesn't mate with the fundamental reality of loftier end audio. If y'all are so experienced, you must have learned that component, specially cable, selection is not exclusively about "amend", similar a football game game score, simply about synergy, more like cooking. Cables that sound cracking in 1 system/room/listener context are often terrible in others, and vice versa, irrespective of brand or cost. Thus your preferences are just that, and zilch more that. Any other determination is cocky-mirage.
That's what I've learned in 46 years of evaluating many hundreds of components and cables, at all price levels. There is no such thing every bit all-time- one size will never fit all- only like shoes.
Jmbatkh,
Yous're absolutely right near synergy. But the quality of the synergy is what I am taking well-nigh. That's what really matters. You cannot get superior synergy with, for instance, Grover Huffman or Pangea or Gabriel Gold or so many other cable companies. No matter how hard you try. They simply do not have the necessary backdrop. They may fit some systems, granted. But the systems they fit will not exist delivering what I term superior sound quality. This is not merely a matter of preferences. It is a matter of quality that can be heard past A/B-ing cables from different companies.
For case, I believe that in nigh any organisation the synergy of, let'southward say, Shunyata cables volition be far superior to, let's say, the synergy of Grover Huffman cables. There is nothing delusional nearly this. Information technology is a simply matter of auditioning these various cables next to know there are indeed superior cables out there. Of course, one size will never fit absolutely all. Just I am not talking virtually one-size-fits-all. I am talking well-nigh taking a broad spectrum of mid and high and systems and inserting these cables to verify that the properties of some are, indeed, superior to others over that broad spectrum -- with exceptions granted.
Jmbatkh,
My comments (in a higher place) have no bearing on how much we savour our systems, no matter how evolved they may be. I use to get immense pleasure from my crystal radio and then my transistor radio. And and so my first real system in 1967. It is very truthful that 1 may non need exceptional cables to enjoy ane's organisation immensely. But exceptional cables -- well-chosen for system synergy -- will surely drag the sound quality of summit components.
Sabai, while I do admire your persistence, and currently enjoy some entry level Shunyata power cords, I think we have lost the thread of the OP's original question. He'south request well-nigh $200 dollar ICs. While I'm sure there are many, many posters hither that would love to pace upward to into even the "cheapest" of Shunyata'due south IC offerings, I don't retrieve the Huffmans and the Shunyatas would ever be cross-shopped. I accept no doubt the Shunyatas are better in most means, at 5x the price they better be. Only I don't recollect it's fair when the OP is asking about a reasonably priced set of ICs to to jump right into the high end, reference spectrum of product offerings.
Dvdgreco, I just got a 2m pair of ZX+south in the mail last week. If the reports of a 150 60 minutes to 300 hour break-in are truthful I've got a long, long fashion to get even so until they've settled in. Just they are quicker, more transparent, and better detailed than my the Ah! AS Direkt ICs that I was using previously. Sorry, that'southward the just direct comparison I tin make correct now.
I probably don't take more than twenty hours on the ZXs at present and the bass has gone missing, but I practice look information technology return in time. Happy to update adjacent month to report how things are coming along.
Tubehead21,
When you state "I don't think the Huffmans and the Shunyatas would e'er be cross-shopped ", I call back you may be surprised that I am not the only Audiogon shopper who has "cross-shopped" from Huffman to Shunyata -- either directly or with intermediate steps. And if y'all shop wisely on Audiogon you can pick upwards some Shunyata cables for non much more than Huffman cables.
Please notation I did mention earlier that Huffman cables offer good value at their price points. Just your point is well made. Of form, the cost of the more expensive Shunyata cables is far higher than Huffman cables. Merely please note that Shunyata has recently cutting the price of their cables essentially while improving their quality. An amazing feat in high end sound where price increases are unremarkably expected.
Sts,
I believe that not everyone here volition know who Sts is. IMO, it would take been advisable for you to brand a full disclosure earlier your recent postal service to let people know that you lot are the maker of Gabriel Golden cables.
Just checking in like I said I would. About a month in, and probably accept about 100 hours on the ZX+s. I like what I'1000 hearing. The audio is lively, detailed, and very quick. There is definitely good a good sense of energy pulsing through the system that wasn't there before.
IMHO Shunyata haven't the clarity of my cables, and dismissing my cables via my cost point shows price bias that isn't reflected in reality.
What makes a smashing cablevision is its ability to ship a signal without putting a signature over information technology. Nigh cables place sheen (cable caused baloney) over the signal this is why some use cables every bit tone controls. This is the wrong priority; y'all demand a bang-up cable to perfect the components in your system. Cables come first they are the limiting force. Yous tin can never overcome the limit an inferior cablevision imposes on a system.
I take compared Huffman ZX cables with literally dozens of other cables in A/B testing using all sonic parameters as a guide. The cables I have used for these comparisons are from Cardas, Mogami, Supra, Pangea, ASI Liveline, Kimber, Bybee, Furutech, Synergistic Research, Elrod and Shunyata.
After comparing many Shunyata cables with Huffman ZX cables there is no competition. Shunyata wins hands down -- across all parameters -- in my system and in other systems where I accept heard them. This includes the parameters of particular, clarity and transparency. Huffman cables take a very definite signature -- a constricted audio stage and a sound that lacks fullness (harmonics). The result is SQ that lacks "naturalness", for want of a ameliorate give-and-take.
Huffman cables do non evangelize "true to the recording" sound at all. They commitment what I would characterize as a "small" sound -- thin and constricted -- appropriate for less expensive systems, peradventure. To highlight these observations, if we are looking only at ribbon cables, if you compare the Huffman ribbon cables with Elrod ribbon cables (much more expensive, to be sure) information technology is very easy to confirm the same observations made (above) regarding Shunyata cables.
Sabi, In some cases I might agree with you simply, you are also comparing Apples and Oranges in much the same light that you would compare a 1970'south Hemi to todays Hell True cat Hemi but, 1 does it subjectivetly different from the other. Both do exactly what they're were designed to do. Not everyone has the coin to 'invest' (if you will) in super high end cables, most of u.s.a.(like myself) are the 'common man' (if yous will) and like anything else cable matching is subjective equally to perceived needs and system matching (which is most important as well) I apply Grover'due south cables with tremendous success and practice not find the brusk coming as what y'all precieve with my system but then again that Too may be because I pay attending to the operation of the room as well. My stageing is wide and deep, not strident, not hard and no listening fatuige as long as I choose to enjoy my music. My opinion differs from yours as I myself would not invest in the super priced cables fifty-fifty if I had the money, I know what is proficient (to me) and Grover's products take made jaw dropping differences to those who have heard my organisation both before and since I started using Grover'south cables.
Distressing Sabai you've only heard the older cables. The new cable blows the others away. IMHO. We'll permit time decide. Shunyata are but copper cables and even shielded. Whatsoever manner you're prejudice. Can I inquire a question why would copper cables cost thousands of dollars? Fairy dust? Isn't copper near $iii a pound? How much copper exercise you recall is in at that place? I'll put my cable up against any regardless of price. Price has no meaning in this business.
I forgot to add Gabriel Gold, Paul Kaplan and AMR cables to the comparison list.
But look at my Testimonial page
http://www.groverhuffman.com/testimonials
in that location are honest comparisons to all kinds of loftier end cables Shunyata included. Your prejudiced view Sabi is obvious.
Rsjm80,
There were never whatsoever jaws dropping with Huffman cables in my organization. They are good value for the coin -- simply no more that, IMO. Actually, the latest Shunyata cables are not "super-priced" although their SQ certainly puts them in the category of "super loftier end", IMO. In fact, you can choice some of them upwardly on Audiogon for well nether $1000. Even some of the older versions are great -- with very reasonable toll tags on Audiogon.
I also "pay attention to the performance of the room". I accept Synergistic Inquiry Art, four Steinmusic Harmonizers, x Schumann resonance devices (4 of which are Chartres coils), 4 QRT Symphony Pros, ane 4-module QRT ElectroClear, 2 Shakti Hallographs, 2 Audio Magic PEAs, 2 Audio Magic Wave Stabilizers, and numerous DIY room treatments. I do not believe I have ignored "the performance of the room".
Groverh,
Lamentable -- I take heard the new Huffman cables. They may blow "the others abroad" -- but they are null special in my system. Shunyata has done the "blowing" here. And so yes, I am prejudiced in favor of their cables. They use OCC deep-cryo-ed copper. There is a earth of difference. Not all copper is akin -- not past a long shot. There is nix similar OCC-deep cryo-ed copper, IMO. Huffman cables exercise not utilize OCC deep-cryo-ed copper.
Caelin Gabriel knows what he is doing. If you check the prices of his newest cables they are no longer thousands of dollars. He has priced them inside accomplish of nearly everyone now -- even at retail -- while making huge improvements in SQ. I have never heard a Huffman cable that comes even close.
Groverh,
You may put your cables up "against whatsoever regardless of price." But that does not mean they would stand up to the comparison. In my experience, having done hundreds of A/B tests with Huffman cables they simply practise not stand up under the comparison. Past the way, neither do Gabriel Aureate, Supra, Pangea and some of the others.
Huffman cables are good value for the money but they do non evangelize superior SQ, IMO. If you accept a look at the better virtual systems on Audiogon I think you volition take a hard time finding any that have chosen Huffman cables "regardless of price".
Your funny Sabai, yous speak with such authority simply I know you, you're a long way from beingness an authorization. Y'all claim I stole your design, I did non. Your design doesn't work it kills the music.
Groverh,
With all due respect, yous may note that I ever state the post-obit -- in my arrangement and IMO. Yes, I am prejudiced. My prejudice is what works in my system. You are as well prejudiced. Your prejudice is obviously for Huffman cables, existence the maker. Shunyatas and Furutechs work very well in my arrangement, far superior to Huffman cables.
I have constitute cables from a number of companies that may print the listener, as least initially. Amongst these brands are Pangea, Gabriel Golden, Huffman and ASI Liveline. But when you make a serious appraisal of these cables later letting them settle into the organisation they cease upwardly every bit clear nether-performers when compared A/B to improve cables.
I have been doing comparative testing on cables -- hundreds of cables -- for years. I do not believe many people -- including many cable makers -- have done this kind of A/B testing using their cables head-to-head opposite the cables of the competition. They may denote they are willing to put their cables upward confronting any other cables -- fifty-fifty much more than expensive ones. But we have heard this sort of unimpressive annunciation many times from many cablevision makers. This is simply called marketing. In fact, most makers take never washed the comparative testing -- the testing that inevitably would show their cables fall short of meliorate cables. But if they did in fact do this testing, does anyone think they would ever publish the results?
Your testimonial page is a very pocket-sized sampling. And there are only 2 testimonials that mention Shunyata cables where the posters exercise not requite any details of their systems. So, this data is of express value. Of course, there are obviously systems where Huffman cables work well. But, as I stated earlier, if yous have a look at the better virtual systems on Audiogon I think you will have a hard time finding any that accept chosen Huffman cables "regardless of price".
Do you remember this email from you to me?
Howdy Grover,
I just received the speaker connectors to be able to connect your speaker cables to my system. It took a bit of piece of work getting it all continued because of the limited infinite behind the components -- and I accept gained a few pounds over the years -- I demand to inhale to be able to squeeze past the speaker bounden posts. After nigh twenty seconds of Steve Lawrence remastered it became articulate that my Cardas speaker cables will be up for sale. Your speaker cables produce the about beautiful music -- totally compelling -- the all-time speaker cables I have e'er heard -- always -- I kid you not. The music has never sounded then beautiful -- it just doesn't get more cute than this. I give you a big, large hug and send you many, many thanks.
All-time ...
Ken
Groverh,
I am not an authority when it comes to loftier end audio -- far from information technology -- and I have never claimed to be an authority. I only know what works in my organization -- and what does non.
With all due respect, instead of addressing the issues in my recent posts y'all are now moving away from the cable issue nether word by bringing up an unrelated and erstwhile professional matter that has long since passed. I experience this is inappropriate for this thread and should be the subject field of a PM. I respectfully note that the bug I have raised here, stated honestly and conspicuously, that relate to various cables makers whose names I have cited, have been avoided by introducing into the discussion what I feel is an inappropriate distraction.
Total disclosure: Grover Huffman and I had a professional relationship in 2013. We were partners in a project to develop a new power conditioner of my design. He signed a non-disclosure agreement with me. He enthusiastically embraced my pattern and demoed it at Newport final yr while crediting me as the designer. He developed the production model and I traveled to Singapore to market it. He and then permit me know by email that he had already proceeded to comprise my blueprint in his cables -- without my consent -- in a modified form that he claimed was unrelated to my pattern. As a result, I ended the relationship.
I call up information technology would be appropriate from hither on in to stick strictly to cable issues on this thread. We have a good discussion going that is very active with opinions and observations from all sides. This is the kind of discourse that provokes thought and elicits a wide variety of viewpoints. I believe this is a very instructive field of study to explore and that we have been doing so in appropriate and effective ways and should proceed to do so.
Groverh,
I certainly do think this electronic mail and my feelings of yesteryear. There has been a lot of water under the bridge since and so. As with many things to do with cables and our perceptions, things modify. Ted Denney used to quote my one-time posts about his SR cables. Things changed there as well. There is no use looking to the past for things that accept passed -- things that cable makers might choose to employ in a self-serving manner. What sounded wonderful initially with Huffman cables did not turn out that fashion in the end, alas. Things changed. I imagine you lot would exist embarrassed by emails of yours that I might quote. But I am non going there.
Source: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/grover-huffman-gh-rca-zx-cables-vs
Posted by: rodriguenother44.blogspot.com
0 Response to "Are Grover Huffman Interconnects The Best For The Money"
Post a Comment